Conducted 16/11/2015 10am
In a conference room in the Institute
L3 is the lecturer and tutor of Class2
[…]
| LE: | A:nd e::hm to begin with would you like to tell me from which Aboriginal nation you are? You don’t have to do that. That’s optional. |
| =L3: | That’s alright. I’m quite proud of that. I’m from the Gumbainggir nation, it’s on the north coast of New South Wales. My father is from the (Nambucca Gates). That’s within the boundaries of that, our lands. Probably () e::hm next to – north to ehm Grafton, slightly west to the – I’ve forgotten the name of the ranges – the mountain range that goes around the the Nambucca Valley. I can’t remember, sorry, I can’t remember the westerly point of that and the coast is on the easterly part of that country. |
| LE: | Ok. And what does your cultural background mean to you in your job? |
| L3: | Ehm ehm, I’m really fortunate in that ehm () the Institute is an Indigenous institution so it’s ehm staffed by Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island peoples. A::nd ehm (), yeah, your your your identity and your understanding of who you are is a significant part of this this venue so e:hm ye::ah () Having an understanding of yourself and your culture and what it means to be part of a a community is really () important in this institution because the idea of community, understanding of community values is is everyday working practice within here. And if you’re a () strongly, more strongly identified with () some of the non-indigenous understandings of ehm individualism which is part of non-indigenous cultures, yeah, you might find some () () difficulties with some of the practices within this institution. And then again as an academic, it’s ehm ehm teaching having ((coughs)) having a good understanding of your cultures is just ehm very important so ehm when when any of the, any of the understandings, academic understandings I try to relate to ehm ((coughs)) and talk about within Aboriginal society, I am, you know – happen to have any base within my culture.
[…] |
| LLE: | E::hm what in your opinion is the most effective form of teaching and learning? |
| L3: | I think ehm () as a teacher () you really () can’t, cannot give up yourself. Tell who you are and what you are in your teaching practices. It’s just () from my understanding of teaching it’s unavoidable. Because that’s such an important part of teaching, you shouldn’t ehm try to isolate it away from your students. And the idea of sharing and being interactive and relating to your students is really important. So you have a ehm () as Newman suggests it’s an authentic relationship {Click here for analysis}, you know. Ehm ehm and I I talk about the idea of ehm ehm treating () ehm treating your students or treating your peers as part of your family, part of your mob ehm and, you know, relating to them in that way so that you’re sharing your life and you’re sharing your experiences and trying to engage with their life and their experience in your learning practice to make some adjustments so () you know, the idea of, you know, I love the idea of group discussions and e::hm student reflections on issues. So, you know ehm if you can draw on to a student when discussing these things and bring in their life, into the concept that you’re trying to deal with. It’s really – I think it’s important. It makes it a more ehm () If you can place it back into your own world, it’s it’s an easier thing to engage with and to connect on I think, yeah. {Click here for analysis} |
| LE: | E::hm and what is the most important aspect about how you teach a class? |
| L3: | Ehm () I::: attempt to be an academic.@And@ I really need to have ehm supported arguments. E:hm but at the same time I:: ehm as a teacher I I like to – my students to understand and try to, I try to share lived experiences if possible. And e:hm, you know, use that as a () as a connector between ehm an abstract concept and e::hm if I can my lived experience or the students’ lived experience just to ehm place it in to their own world, their own frame, mind set. So that it’s an easier ehm experience to grab hold of. Ehm a basic example for that is listening to a non-Aboriginal student talk about an aspect of the Stolen Generations compared to an Indigenous student talking about ehm an aspect of the Stolen Generations. Ehm with many Indigenous students, they draw on that personal experience or a family experience a:nd sometimes the interpretations are ()() I’m not gonna say better connected but that that personal experience is is very evident and ehm as a reader it really draws you into what’s being presented.
[…] |
| LE: | Mhm (positive), ok. Ehm, so which methods do you use in class to () incorporate that? |
| L3: | Ehm ok ehm. I’m also a big fan of narrative so I love the idea of talking. Love the idea of storytelling. Love the idea of sharing. Lived experiences. Ehm ehm part of the narrative to work, I think, it’s best to () ehm have some idea of ehm that group interaction. Ehm so with some of my courses ehm () – Not so much with the one that we did cause we did have some () no we did have readings, yeah – I like to give people a variety of options when it comes to content. So I’ll give you what I think – And that’s also from my interpretations of what the ehm the field is talking about, so other authors – So I give you my view of the world. I’ll also ask students to look at other materials, other readings. And generally, most of the time they’re not my voice, my readings but rather people who talk around that same topic area. Then I get students to share. So I get people to talk ehm and share their experience because, you know, from the way I read something and the way you read something, ehm you know, they’d be slightly different, you know. There are certain things that you pick up on that I may not pick up on. And again that idea of the sharing of ehm, of the content, talking about the content is ehm that hopefully as you’re talking about something with your peer or your friend they will, you will suggest something that they didn’t realise. Or vice versa and then you get to maybe draw and grab other things. But at the same time you’ll hear things that people say and then it might not relate to your understanding, your interpretations and then students have the opportunity to ignore them and hopefully build () their knowledge from something that they understand. {Click here for analysis} |
| (LE: | Mhm (positive)) |
| L3: | Ehm they connect with. Cause again () you know, we do have a cultural diverse ehm student population. People have things that are more significant to them. Where other people and – You know () you might draw on that and other times you want to say well that’s not really how I see it, how I relate to that. I can understand it but, you know, it’s not gonna be part of my knowledge. |
| (LE: | Mhm (positive)) |
| L3: | You know. I spend most of my time talking to teachers so:: you know ehm teachers will draw on things to take in their teaching practice and other things they’ll just ignore. Good and bad things but it all happens. So yeah. () So the shared experience is probably something that I like to do. I think that’s probably it. |
| LE: | ((laughs)) Ehm. Are there any differences between how you teach our class and other classes? You already said we might not have had that many readings? |
| L3: | Ehm. Possibly that. Ehm again I, when I first started teaching, so I’ve only been working here for a about twenty-odd yea-, only about, about twenty years () but ehm () you know, […] There is some things I love and some things I don’t love. Or ignore is probably a better word than don’t love. Ehm but ehm () hopefully I can share that, those understandings, all the stuff I do. And again there are slight variations, again. I only picked up this subject this year so, you know, again, the wealth of my readings were () were a little bit briefer than some of the other courses I’ve had a little bit more experience in and ehm know the literature a little bit better. That’s probably the variation between this course and some other courses. But some of the foundational practices you know – like I said I really like the idea of shared knowledge and shared experience. I do love people to ehm tell their stories, engage with their understandings. I ehm I do really – particularly because we’re working in an adult environment – I do rely on ehm the the learner to take responsibility of that learning so () You know when I ask people to ehm listen to the lecture or attend the lecture and then bring that lecture and that understanding and the readings into the tutorial and then bring that together to do the discussion. And again for me the tutorial ehm if you noticed how – you know, I mean, you know, the three-hour block that we have – A lecture is only a third of the thing and the rest of the tut will generally about that- about those activities, those understandings. Didn’t happen so much in () ehm Class 2 because we have ehm () @large@ oral presentations that just took up a lot of time. |
| (LE: | mhm (positive)) |
| L3: | Ehm and that was part of the – who ever originally designed the course – that was something they did. And we just got more numbers so it’s just become more difficult to try to get everyone in so yeah () in a, in a () thirteen week course it’s hard to get more than thirty, thirty students to give their presentation. That time frame is kind of limited so some of that interactive group-orientated understanding of the learning. ()() But I do that::
[…] If I do any interactive workshops, I try to do the, the play and the understanding cause, you know, learning is about having fun. No, I think good learning is you can enjoy it and have fun. Ehm () I don’t do enough fun in this course. Again probably. |
| (LE: | ((laughs))) |
| L3: | Probably && structure it a little different to have more fun but ehm () Yeah I think that’s an important part of any learning experience. |
| LE: | Ok. So the:: interactive presentations are no:t something that’s picked up very often in the, in other classes? |
| L3: | Ehm () Yes,they are but it doesn’t take up the whole content, yeah. I’ve adjusted it for another program for teaching students and they all have a, an oral presentation. But we do it as a group-based oral presentation. So instead of having thirty different presenters individually, we’ll have groups of anywhere from four to six students. So it kind of shortens the number of presenta- yeah, shortens the number of presentations and the time frame needed to do that. But ehm () that that that that skill is still there. Ehm the benefit with the individuals is there that you really can drive the ehm () student participation activity. You see and that’s the ehm some of the absolutely entertaining skills that people brought up with that were wonderful, that I really enjoyed. And I suppose that was the ehm that’s something I like looking at because again as a as a presenter I don’t think I’m as entertaining as some of my peers who are, really have that wonderful skill to ehm draw an audience into what they’re doing. I I don’t really see myself – I can tell a story but I’m not a great storyteller. And ehm I have some peers who are great storytellers so their their use of humour ehm connects their audiences, a skill I don’t use very – I’m not very good at. But some, again some of the student presen- some of the students, you know, the great entertaining engagement that they can get, I love watching. And yeah, if you, if you’ve ever seen a good storyteller you will always know it because a good good storyteller is brilliant, yeah. Yeah. |
| LE: | Yeah. Ehm () () so that might be a:: difference from, between your class and ehm other classes here at the Institute maybe? |
| L3: | mhm (positive). Well, yeah, yeah, there’s some much better storytellers in there. They can really grab their audience much better than me ehm. I’m I I’d see, I like to think myself as a little bit more academic orientated. () Ehm I do do try to use a lot of evidence to support my arguments and not just be my opinion. () But again at the same time I do try to tell me stories to kind of connect to the abstract concepts with my audience as well.
[…] |
| LE: | Would you say there are also differences between your classes ehm () or classes here at the Institute and other university classes? |
| L3: | Oh, oh ((laughs)) yeah, I think so. I think ehm I think we do some really good things here. That idea of ehm () () I think the idea of ehm shared experience and humour is something that is part of ehm Aboriginal cultures or Indigenous cultures. I think the ehm it’s something that I ehm I believe is used within our school.
[…] Ehm and, you know, just wandering the halls of other campuses and listening to students talk about classes and even my children talk about classes there are some really big differences at times. Sometimes it’s content sometimes the way the content is presented. Ehm () you know, I ehm, you know, I, I think we do some things that are different. You know, I would love to do a lot more e:hm () experiences outside the classroom. You know, I think that’s important () to do that. Ehm even changing the environment. Sometimes, you know, even walking out of the classroom and just doing something outside is a nice change to engage an audience. |
| (LE: | mhm (positive)) |
| L3: | Ehm but also, yeah, you know, going out and talking to the experts or bringing the experts into the room.
[…] That we can do talks but I love to do more of possibly. Yeah. |
| LE: | Ok, so the next is a kind of statement from a class I had last year. A::nd it says ‘Many methods used in universities worldwide can be described as Western and provide little room for, for example storytelling or spirituality’. Would you agree? |
| L3: | Ehm, I would say no. Because I think the idea of () for Indigenous people, their idea of storytelling and spirituality is something that they are a::nd because it’s- as a teacher you share who you are and you absolutely can’t avoid it and if anyone – I think the theory, the the the literature says you can’t avoid it when it comes to good teaching practice. And I think that some people – and I, I’ve seen average teachers, I call them average teachers who try to make that that barrier around them and their students and I don’t think that’s a really good teaching practice. Ehm, I have seen it at the university e:hm so I can see where that statement comes from. But ehm you know, when I talk about my community ehm as I do in any other content I talk about ehm I talk about community and when I talk about community I’m actually talking about family so there is that love and respect and spiritual connection that’s part of all that. Ehm and again when I talk about spiritual I’m not talking about religious I’m talking about that lived experience, part of my life ehm that’s part of me and my spirit, my engagement with the world, so () My view of spirituality might be different to that, that context, to that that statement as well. () Ehm any idea-, I don’t I don’t know if I shared it with this course but, you know, we live in this wonderful building with this big open walls, doors looking outside, the thing, you know, if it starts raining you get this tin roof, it’s screaming at you while you’re talking |
| (LE: | @mhm (positive)@) |
| L3: | and I frequently ask students to stop and look out the window because there’s nothing nicer than just that stopping and sharing in your environment sometimes. Don’t think that happened this semester with us but, yeah, no, it happens regularly, I do. And it confuses people sometimes just to think that, you know. |
| (LE: | ((laughs))) |
| L3: | ‘I’m trying to learn here what are you looking out the window for?’ But sometimes you need to do that, yeah. |
| LE: | Yeah. () Ok, so ehm do you think that it’s it’s kind of unavoidable to ehm bring storytelling and to bring one’s own background into into the class. () For everyone in general? |
| L3: | I do, I believe () Ehm look () () ((sighs)) When I talk about teaching I draw on my experience as a primary school teacher, talk to little kids. But I:: () the things I do with early childhood students, I do the exact same thing with adults. Ehm () and it’s funny that some adults think that, you know, that the fun – that learning isn’t about () having fun and playing. Bu:t e:hm that’s a great way of learning. And ehm I don’t know if we played too much but we did try to learn, we did try to have fun. Together, did try to get the students, to bring that into these materials. Ehm but yeah, it’s part of – I think it’s a good, good learning experience, a good teaching practice, yeah. |
| LE: | Ok. E:hm () Is there anything else you would like to say about the topic () that I didn’t cover? |
| L3: | ((laughs)) no, no. Ehm I, I, I don’t know. Look, ehm () I think what we do here at the Institute is a little bit different from the rest of the university. To some degree. Ehm, I think that () () e::hm most of the academics within our school ehm use good Indigenous () educational practices. Ehm () my Phd is based on () ehm pedogi- pedagogical understandings particularly engaging Aboriginal students. But also just good pedagogical understandings in general. So I think ehm ehm I’m quite happy to argue () what I do () is good to engage any audience. Ehm what I do I think is particularly good for an Indigenous audience in that we draw on the idea of cultural knowledge and background knowledge into your learning. And I think bringing that for any student into a classroom is good. Ehm I know that I attempted to bring in the international students into our learning sometimes and draw on your experiences in your home wor- your home () your home lives into the classroom. Ehm hopefully engage you in the classroom. But also connect the rest of the audience to the, the diversity that’s, that lives in that classroom {Click here for analysis}, that’s all. So ehm, yeah, I just think that they’re good teaching practices that we try to – and again, you know, I try to, I, I, I’m a big arguer that, you know, I, I, I () Hopefully, I’ll be arguing a lot more in the near future that the idea of ehm what Indigenous communities say about e::hm learning is something that ehm the rest of the world is understanding and catching up with. () Ehm, to some degree. It’s () to some degree. So ehm () maybe that’s, that’s in my future arguments. Been thinking about and drawing upon in the near future. () I think that’s about everything.
[…] |
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